In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Mike — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:43:44 GMT

A terrible crime comitted by a mentally unstable human being, which ultimately leads to a new law and an increase in tax payers pockets, because the sick person needs our help? My heart goes out to the family. I would not help any criminal, I would send them all to death row. The fact that this happens in a large city is not the surprise, the fact that more security is needed in subways after dark is no surprise either.I hope people find ways to get smart in this century. Perhaps with less denial and more assertive inteliigence, the country and it's cities will do what is right for themselves, even if it means getting tougher. With the population growing, ego's inflating, self-involvedment & selfishness overwhelming,there are people who are basically worthless, so it's time for those who are able to make positive changes for the country do so, step up, and make it happen. Is this you?

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Social Worker, Concord, NH — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 20:50:01 GMT

As a mental health professional in NH, a state that has had it's version of Kendra's law much longer than NY, I will watch with much interest. I hope the program will shed some light on how funding, or lack thereof, can render these laws ineffective. Many will nod in agreement with how important these laws are and the services they "compel", but no one wants to pay for them. The majority of individuals who fit this profile are disabled and rely on Medicaid. I'm glad the story is being told. I hope it is complete.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Joi M., Kansas City, MO. — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:01:28 GMT

I was in NY when this took place. I remember seeing it on the news. It has stayed with me a long time. I know i've even discussed it with others. I'm not very sure how I feel about the subject of mental health. I don't think it's an excuse for murder. People who cannot be trusted with other's safety or their own, should not be left alone. Unless, of course, they are safely behind locked doors.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Concerned in St. Louis, Mo. — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:10:27 GMT

Any laws to improve services has to be better then what we currently have. Ultimately the government has to decide are we all worth the same? To keep our streets and us safe it has to either be; "take your medication or live your life locked up where you can't harm another human being no matter what the cost is"!!!

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

ss Downeast, NC — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:33:55 GMT

Why are people who have proven to be violent (mentally ill or not) allowed to repeatedly prey on the rest of the population? How about a one strike you're out law for violence.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

David Ray — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:35:53 GMT

I applaud the family for such a courages fight. But very few of these laws passed actually help any future victims. I see more grandstanding among politicians at when these bills are signed into law. Although laws such as Megan's law and the Kendra Law may save someone, It's like putting a piece of gum to plug the Titanics leak. Unless our judges, hospitals and everybody else in authority puts their foot down on all crime, we will not see things getting better. Only worse. Stop the political grandstanding and do your jobs is all I have to say to all in authority

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Tim Quinn, Chico, CA — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:41:38 GMT

Heart disease, cancer, multiple sclerosis, and more...all of these diseases rightfully receive a lot of funding for research and care, perhaps because all of us are vulnerable to them. Mental illness is just as much an illness as any of them, and touch as many lives as any kind of disease, perhaps more. We all pay a price for mental illness going untreated and undertreated. Why is this being ignored? Especially we need to provide funding for medical treatment and proper housing for schizophrenic people, whose suffering is manifest -- just go walk downtown in any major city. We also need to reform laws to help agencies provide continuity of care.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Barbara, Brooklyn, NY — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:46:14 GMT

Mr. Goldstein sought treatment and was rejected from several treatment facilities prior to his act. He was tried by jury x3 and found not to be legally insane.

Instead, I believe that his illness was criminalized.

The jury never looked at any of the stack of hospital records in his name.

Many years ago, I wrote a letter to Mr. Goldstein around holiday time. He was already in prison.

I did not want Mr. Goldstein to feel that the community had forgotten about him. I feel even stronger about this today.

Just as we remember Kendra Webdale and her horrific death, we need to mourn a system that criminalizes those on the margins of society...those with severe, untreated mental illness.

This programming will probably honor Kendra and other victims of crimes committed by those with a mental illness.

There deserves to be a balanced presentation. I think it imperative that we each tune in with an attuned sensitivity to ALL of the victims on BOTH sides of each case.

Andrew Goldstein remains sentenced for life, not in a psychiatric facility -- not as a person with a mental illness but as a criminal in an isolation unit in an upstate prison.

With due respect to the Webdale family, I see Mr. Goldstein very clearly as a victim himself.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Sickofitall — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 23:47:45 GMT

Goldstein was crazy alright! Crazy like a fox. He had the wherewithal to plan the attack, someone was going to be pushed. He should be made to feel what Kendra must have felt, sheer terror, in the moments as she tumbled before the train. Nothing the mental health society or criminal justice system could ever come close.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

clinton boggs burlington nc 27215 — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:02:44 GMT

NC has cut back on mental health. We are putting people on the street with serious problems. The state says they can not afford to treat people. They will treat and support them after they haved hurt someone. I am sure we are not the only state doing this. To stop the hurt and cost it seems to me better to treat now then later.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Pat Leclerc Topeka Ks — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:40:40 GMT

seems to me that if President Reagan had left the mental hospitals alone , instead of dumping the insane on the streets of the USA,we wouldn't be having this particular conversation. The insane belong in a hospital, not a penitentiary! Nyone who is sane knows this to be true.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

kathy kluck, stevens point, wisconsin — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:45:07 GMT

God bless anyone who helps the mentally ill, especially the Webdales. What compassion and insight it must have taken to see the true problem here.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

pat — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:50:26 GMT

if we would quit building prisons to put "pot offenders" in and start building hospitals and rehabs, we'd all be a lot better off.....

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Nancy — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:32:31 GMT

It's time that we finally try and do something to help our mentally ill. They have been ignored (ignore them and they might just go away) long enough. Mental illness is a HUGE problem in this country. The sad fact is that in reality, a mentally ill person in many cases is unemployed, and often homeless. I challenge anyone to try and find assistance for a mentally ill loved one with a lack of funds. As is the case with drug addiction, the cost of assistance is high. How do we suppose mentally ill are to "get help" if they have no money to do so? It's a proven fact that some of the medication intended to "help" has literal side effects that make them NOT take their medication. It's not that they don't "choose" to take it; it is a side EFFECT.
Either way, it's time we actually try and help these people instead of turning our heads. This problem is only going to get much worse, and their problem is our problem. As with drug addicts, ignoring the issue does not make it disappear, and sooner or later, it will touch your life...maybe not in a good way.
Let's stop ignoring and try and help. Mentally ill do not "choose" to be this way. It has to be torturous for them. Why would we ignore our fellow man in trouble?

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Denise Tennessee — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:35:45 GMT

Today many people are hearing voices in their mind that tell them to do horrible things. However, our conscience must be our guide. Children must learn from a young age how to understand that their conscience is their to guide them into what is right. Children should be taught at a young age to tell their parents when they are having bad thoughts so that their parents can help them understand to never put these bad thoughts into action. Children should be told that just because they have a bad thought it does not mean they are a bad person. They must be listened to by parents who will help them direct their thoughts to good things so that when they grow older they will not act out on the thoughts that they have held in from childhood. (Like this man did when he pushed this poor lady into the path of that train.) If a child is having trouble in their thought life, as parents, we should never allow them to feed those bad thoughts by allowing them to watch bad movies, or play bad video games! These things put thoughts into their mind that may have never been there otherwise. Because some of them, when grown, will act out on the things they have watched from childhood.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

former mental health residential case manager, baltimore, md — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 01:35:58 GMT

It all comes down to money.. support those at the voting polls who support money for mental health treatment. No money no treatment and the cycle continues.. also remember there are many who have been diagnosed with mental illness who do not believe in and are strong advocates against forced medicating! Where do you stand on that issue? Decide and tell your legislators and those in power who ultimately fund these projects. There is no accountability, as to why these types of issues continue to occur.. why? Who should be made accountable? Why aren't they being made accountable by the people of this country?

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

annie — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 03:10:44 GMT

i am mentally ill, not violently except to myself. recieving help was a monumentally difficult process that i was not capable of doing,fortunatly my husband was able to be my advocate while i locked myself in my room and hid; it took over two years. for someone such as mr goldstein negotating the system without an advocate would be close to impossible. my heart goes out to kendra's family, i have children too, but perhaps mr goldstein is also a victim

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jeff, Hoquiam Wa. — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 03:24:32 GMT

Goldstein murdered a very fine young woman in cold blood. I wonder what she would have given back to our society if she would have lived? If a person is so sick they have to murder other people than they need to be removed from society to protect ALL other people. The risk is so great, they should never be released. Would you want someone like this who was pronounced as cured to date your daughter? Please close your eyes and try to imagine the horror this young lady must have felt as she was dying under that train. May she rest in peace.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

E.M - Michigan — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 03:52:49 GMT

Annie I admire your courage to comment and I agree with you that Mr Goldstein is also a victim. While I feel sorry for what happened to Kendra, I think God intended for good to come out of this and for his name to be glorified - that is why the love in the hearts of Kendra's parents is so profound and is being spread to the other "goldsteins" out there who really cannot help themselves.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Melissa, Los Angeles, CA — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 03:58:42 GMT

I applaud the writer who commented on Reagan. I worked in mental health in the 80's and 90's in both New York and NC (and I know NC is releasing lots of mentally ill onto the streets as another writer also pointed out) and I saw the effects of Reagan's policies. It got so sad for me that I had to get out of it altogether. I place guilt firmly on the mental health system in New York and think the people who sit up in offices deciding society would be ok if these violent people were on the streets so they could have a beefier salary ought to be tried for Kendra's murder

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Joseph Cloutier — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 04:52:33 GMT

Here, in Canada, the concept of Kendra's Law is in fact in place. many people with a mental illness are required by law to take prescribed medications. That all sounds great. However after a certain hospitalization period where these mentally disabled people get on their medication and are stabilized they are nearly always released into the world to get along by themselves. The majority of the mentally disabled people can and do survive quite well in society rpoviding their medication is taken. I have witnessed quite a few occassions where the disabled individual does not have the ability to survive alone and thus regressess firstly by stopping the intake of their medication. In other words, probably more than 50% of the people on the streets of our great country have some form of a mental illness that is not being treated properly. But how can the Medical field constantly enforce the intake of medications. Shall we arrest the mentally ill and lock them up with the average murderer or thief in our corrections facilities. (which is often the case). Perhaps we need to build bigger long term hospital where the mentally disabled can be housed after three or four repetitative returns for the "crime" of not taking their meds. The question of what happened to Kendra is a sad and unfortunate event. I do not mean to sound cold, but people are killed every day by other's behaviours. A lot of them are not disabled. Should we put them on medications as well???

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Bonnie Burer, Sierra Vista, AZ — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 07:10:44 GMT

While I do think Kendra's Law is probably a good thing because it tries to make mentally ill persons responsible for taking their medication as instructed, it will be an impossilbe task and probably short lived in some areas. There will always be those who slip through the cracks, just like this one. I can think of several young people right now who need to be on legal medication and closely monitored. They live in Maryland. One young mother, who is drug-addicted to illegal drugs, has already had 3 children. Are these 3 potentially mentally ill people who will have to be monitored? If they are, I hope Kendra's Law will start at the beginning of a mentally ill person's life...but how will we know who they are? When will we know who they are?

If Kendra had been my daughter, I would still be screaming mad at him, at his family, at his medical physician, and at anyone else who knew who and where he was and did not take responsibility for taking care of Goldstein. Wasn't his record just too long for him to be walking the streets free even without Kendra's Law? I think so.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Bonnie Burer, Sierra Vista, AZ — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 07:32:29 GMT

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

J. Pakulak, Seattle WA — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 08:05:50 GMT

Two lives were lost that day, although it could be argued that Mr. Goldstein's had been gone long before this tragedy occurred. Mark David Chapman, John Hinckley Jr., Naveed Haq. . .the list goes on and on, and includes friends, family members, as well as my own mother. When she needed a firm, loving environment in which to be made to take her meds, there was no safety net there to make that happen. She died an early death due to her mental illness, died on the streets, betrayed by laws that "protected" her rights to slowly and surely kill herself, year after year, in the cold and uncaring streets of this great nation, America. We will continue to hear of these types of violent acts as long as we continue to ignore the monster under the bed that is mental illness.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Janet, Yuma, AZ — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:16:10 GMT

Do most of you not understand, that there are different types of mental illness. Mr Goldstein has a very complicated form of mental illess. In my opinion he should be medicated forceably. I myself have a milder form of mental illness. Like Annie, if not for the patience and understanding of my husband, I would not have gone on to get help. It also turns out that mental illness runs in families. My grandmother, uncle and cousin all have it as well. All of us also have different kinds of mental illness. Some people, like myself, realise there problems and work with a therapist and pyschiatrist. I have been on medication for the last six years and other then a medication change have been a normal functioning member of society. The people who usally have problems are the severe bipolars and people with schizophrenia. Both types of people go through phases where they think they no longer need there meds. Usually, if a mentally ill person takes there meds there are no problems. Unemployed or uninsured people can't afford there meds. The meds are very expensive. But drug companys can and will help people with mental illness through clinical studies. They can and will pay for these very expensive drugs.
God bless the Webdales for all there understanding.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Denise King, Corinth,MS — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 11:03:47 GMT

When it comes to crime (or anything else) those who say the mentally ill should be held accountable to the same degree as the sane, obviously know nothing about mental illness.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

V.C., AZ — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 15:21:20 GMT

I have worked with the mentally disabled for many years, and the one thing that I learned is they are people to. No matter how anyone sees them. I have seen them get violent and abusive to being sweet and gentle, but no matter you have to treat them normal.

Here we have the Kendra Law which I believe is helping alot of my clients. If they don't take their medication then it can be harmful to themself as well as others. It's hard dealing with someone like that, but everyone needs to understand that some are born with the dissability or something tragic happened, but no matter they are still people.

If it weren't for Kendra's Law then I believe that these kinds of things would happen more often then anyone realizes.

My heart and prayers go out to Kendra's family and other families that may have fallen victim to tragedies such as this. Also to the families that have a child or someone in their family with mental illness.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Mario — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:24:51 GMT

A 15-year-old boy was stabbed to death Friday in a hallway at his high school in an affluent Boston suburb, and a classmate was charged with murder after blurting out, "I did it, I did it," authorities said."The defendant has a history of fairly serious psychological diagnoses and has also suffered from hyperactivity dysfunction for many years," Shapiro said. "What is clear is (he) has a serious disability." If were not going to hold the people that commit these acts because of a disability responsible then maybe the doctors that let them out into the streets should be.I think that would change a doctors view on who is stable and who is not!!!!!!!!!

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

JD, OH — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:32:32 GMT

I am tired of the excuses and enablers. This guy is a criminal and should get the death penalty. Liberals are to blame for these people walking the streets. Lock them up!

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Lou, Morgantown, WV — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:14:14 GMT

Thank you to Babara from Brooklyn, NY. I could not have expressed my feelings more eloquently. People who are mentally ill did not ask for this illness. It is shameful that in this very wealthy and sophisticated country, mental illness still carries a stigma and that these individuals still can not receive adequate treatment for suffering. We all pay the price for this.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Katharine Keenen — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 17:52:23 GMT

This man was schizophrenic. He cannot be held responsible for his actions. How about assigning blame to the professionals who should have done more to treat him in order to prevent such a horrible crime. What good does throwing him in jail do or wishing for the death penalty. People have no understanding of mental illness and are quick to say 'let's lock 'em up and throw away the key'. That's the sign of an ignorant mind devoid of compassion.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

jio , columbus, ohio — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:39:27 GMT

Blame it on the health care system , their responsible for treating this person and he should have never never never been alone , he should have been in a insitution

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Sel Colby, Glen Ellyn, Il. — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:52:35 GMT

My heart goes out to the parents of Kendra, who will spend the balance of their lives missing her.
I also feel very compassionate to Andrew Goldstein who is the victim of severe mental illness. Putting Andrew behind bars is w/o question the wrong thing to do. I was impressed with Katharine Keenens comments.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

D. Dyches — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:54:17 GMT

In my opinion the larger issue is one that regrettably, can't possibly ever be solved. That would be the wasting of our tax dollars, not on projects that help people that really need it, but on national defense, misguided international relations, and a corrupt political system. The American government could virtually help anyone, and everyone in this country that needed help(for whatever reason,)if their energies were not so misdirected. Protecting the big corporations and the lobbyist machine, that they derive the bulk their campaign contributions from seem to be more important than actually helping their constituents. No long winded explanations are necessary, everyone knows how and why this happens.
The sad truth is that there are, more than two victims in this case. Think not only of Kendra and her family, but also consider Andrew and his family. Knowing a member of your family has a mental illness and there is little (if anything) you can do to help them is a hard fact to deal with. Then consider how bad his family must feel knowing their son ended the life of such a bright young woman, while the inept system failed treat Andrew's problems that they knew existed. This brings us to the other major problem, that there is such a negative stigma about mental illness in this country, that it is hard for people to view it as the true medical problem that it really is. Even some health care professionals laugh at their patients behind their backs, because they themselves lack understanding. What I don't understand is (as stated in an earlier entry,)if you have a problem anywhere else in your body, you are give treatment, or medication, but the minute you bring mental illness into the picture, that all changes. Lets just throw any compassion out the window and "lock em all up!" The human brain is the most complex system we have in our body, so why when it malfunctions, are these unfortunate souls demonized instead of being treated? I realize that all to often it is the innocent people like Kendra that end up paying the price , but at what point do you blame the indiviual or the system? More importantly, when does the help and the healing start? Aparently, in this case it never does, as both families have equally been deprived of their loved ones. Even if the proper funding is ever available, just throwing money at the problem is not the answer, simply because of the chance that the funds will probably be misused. Activist's like the Webdales can direct much needed attention toward this crisis, but unfortunately even if any new focus is dedicated to actually solving this problem, I'm afraid the bureaucracy of the system will always get in the way of any real effective change.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Kenny V. Blasdell, NY — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:39:29 GMT

My brother has a stepson that is a paranoid schizophrenic, & NY State doesn't seem to want anything to do with him. The family lives in fear & can't find a place to send him. Everyone in the house has to sleep with thier bedroom doors locked. The stepson is only 14 years old, but he is 5' 8" tall & 165 lbs. He has hurt the girls in the house before, but thankfully, not seriously YET ! But that day may come ! Why won't the state do anything about this ??? The boy is potentially dangerous ! My brother has to sleep with a baseball bat next to his bed at night & has already had a stroke at the age of 42. I would like to see the boy put in a treatment center before something happens to him, or someone else ! I really would hate to see someone hurt (or worse) & worry that my brother could end up in jail if he had to try restraining or hurting the 14 yr. old.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Diane McElhoes Homercity, Pa — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:30:30 GMT

I think it is incrediable and that even though a person with a mental Illness had ended thier daughters life for no reason, jumped in and tryed to make a difference for those with Mental Illnesses.. It is ashame that this person did not get the help he needed. The stigma that society has had on those with these illnesses was probly the reason and health providers and the costs of medications, is why some pople with these mental illnesses do not get the help.. But, more importantly, embarresment is why some people do not want to get help and deniel that they are not sick.Thank you NAMI member and Mental Health worker

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Sarah, Jackson, MS — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:59:41 GMT

Dear JD, OH: Ronald Reagan was at least paritally "responsible for these people walking the streets." He was clearly not a liberal. But this is not a political issue. It is an issue of humanity (or lack thereof). Why do some people want/need to politicize everything? How about looking at things from the humanistic perspective? How about having a little compassion for all people? Just try to imagine walking in their shoes for a moment. JD, you and I could just as easily have been born with a predisposition toward mental illness. Last I checked, people don't get to choose their genes, their families, or their childhood environments and/or traumatic events in their lives, all of which may be contributors to the development of mental illness. And another thought... am I the only one who thinks that most, if not all, of the violent criminals in our prisons (and maybe even the nonviolent ones who repeat their maladaptive behaviors over and over again) are mentally ill? Why don't we treat these people with a little decency and respect instead of throwing them into a hate-incubator where their troubles will only fester and grow? Society creats these problems and then tries to point the finger at someone else. It is truly shameful.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Justin, Glouster County, New Jersey — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 00:26:29 GMT

I think it is an excellent idea. What I find astounding is that her family did exactly the opposite that other people would have done. Instead of developing a hatred of people with mental illnesses, they helped enlighten people. That is truly worth recognition.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Cave Johnson — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:22:12 GMT

Just a side note...great story..should be told...However, I hope Staples is getting a bill for their free impressions from the to.p of the legal pads

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

E KIRKWOOD — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:26:21 GMT

WHERE IS GOLDSTEIN'S FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY COULD HAVE FOUGHT FOR CARE FOR HIM. SIGNED: A PSYCH NURSE

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

mary lou Mccurdyson Norristown, PA — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:34:17 GMT

Anyone having to deal with the system will find Goldstein not an exception but the norm. No one who has to live with this disease or someone who has it can understand the difficulty of getting real care and help in this country.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jennifer, Green Bay, WI — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 01:56:40 GMT

Having worked in the mental health system for 12 years in Michigan, I can tell you that mental health funding suffers hugely in this country, not just in Michigan. The agency I used to work for had narrowed its scope of services to the "chronic moderate to severely mentally impaired" individuals, and then there was always a question as to what that meant, and the case managers always had a fight on their hands with administration just to serve THAT population. The bottom line is that it is, and always will be, about MONEY. When the state mental health institutions were closed in the early 90s to integrate these folks in society, states were in for a world of hurt. Funding was given to mental health agencies to build group homes to house these folks. Now, mental health agencies are getting out of the group home game and are contracting out the managing of these homes. The issue here is one of responsibility. Ultimately each state has the responsibility to care for these individuals. Putting them in prison does not give them the help they need. I don't know if there is ultimately one answer for this problem. What I do know is that money must be set aside for helping out these individuals. Our priorities as a nation are very skewed - especially when, as in the case you have on your program tonight, an individually purposely seeks out help and cannot get it. One final thought: How did your show get access to this guy's mental health records? The HIPAA act proctects this information.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Marc Dubois — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:07:05 GMT

I can't believe the attitude of society towards mentally ill people. This individual sought out help on multiple occasions. The system failed miserably. What type of enlightened society want to send it's ill to jail rather than treatment .To think that Andrew knew what he was doing is pathetic. Retribution this misplaced is sickening. Don't blame the ill person, blame the screwed up health system ,hold them accountable. We hold the folks at Mc Donalds accountable for hot coffee and blame the mentally ill what a juxtaposition!!!

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:12:25 GMT

I am a practicing lawyer and have been so for eleven years. I also suffer from Bipolar Disorder. In my opinion the Dateline Program was irresponsible and played on people's emotions. What happened to Kendra Webbdale was horrible, but no more horrible than the myriad of horrendous crimes committed by person who are clearly not mentally ill. Further, there was no statement concerning the truth that the general population is as violent as the mentally ill population statistically.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

D.N. Hoboken, NJ — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:21:31 GMT

I've just watched the dateline special on Kendra's case and before I say my full peace I want to point out a very upsetting aspect of this story. I have to say shame on Kendra's family! Why in the world would they sue the Mental Health System for 70 million dollars when it is already so low on funding, this money they were awarded has taken away from a mentally ill persons resources, shame on them. Also, I am shocked at some of the ignorant comments that are posted on this website. It seems some people have captured the bigger story here and understand the horrific life Andrew has dealt with over his life time, but many have not. This man knew he had a problem, asked for the help to fix it, and as many noted let down time and time again. Mental illness is an extremely real thing and this story is very upsetting. What type of parents let down there child, Andrew's parents should be tried and convicted for not getting their child the help he needs. If you are not willing to go to the end of the earth for your child at any given moment you should not have them. If Andrew had cancer, would they have ignored this disease. Awful!

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jenny Warren — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:22:28 GMT

Sain, mental, whatever the problem may be, people should be held responsible for criminal acts. Goldstein obviously fell through the cracks of the mental health institution. He should pay for taking Kendra's life. There is no excuse for murder. God bless the Webdales, what a beautiful family.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

BK Utah — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:32:23 GMT

Why is it okay for the police to drop this dangerous person off at the hospital ERs. He goes from an armed escort to nurses taking care of him. With so many attacks why was this person not locked up???? The national trend is to dump the mental patients on the ERs how does this help the person or the system. These type on dangerous individuals belong in prison not in our ERs or hospitals.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Sara Murdock, New Castle, Pa — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:32:38 GMT

I feel for Kendra's family. It is a sad state of affairs when something this tragic has to happen to bring attention to a failed Mental Health System. Kendra is a victim as is Andrew. There will always be arguments on both sides as to if Andrew and others like him, are quilty. Personally, I don't know how we can hold a person responsible for actions taken when the illness controls the actions. The point made at the beginning of the show which states the current move is for community placement in NY, is also in place in Pa. Shorter hospital stays with followup in the community. Folow-up is not always "followed-up" with by a Social Worker or by the individual needing treatment. And families are at a loss as to how and what to do. My son was diagnosed with Major Depression in 1998. In 2002-2003, he had two suicide attempts within 30 days...one after being hospitalized for 6 days for suicidal ideations. Upon being released he attempted suicide within 12 hours of being released. Even though his hospital records state that he was high-risk for suiciding and needed long term treatment...he was released within 6 days of his attempt. As his mother I told the Social Worker that he was not compliant with medication or with appointments and that I felt that he was not ready for release. Within 90 days of his release, my son died. He was not a threat to anyone but himself...he was 18 yeas old. How do we make the system work? How much can we hold those who are ill accountable for their own treatment? for their actons? My son was a victim of the system...he was also his own victim...

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jerry Bridge, Oklahoma City, OK — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 02:46:52 GMT

Having a mentally ill son, I can relate to this severe problem of not enough proper treatment for the mentally ill. My son lives in an apartment without anything to do all day (enough to make anyone crazy) He does not like to live alone, but the only other options are room and boards which I belive is the right place for him right now, but because he has a tendancy to act out they will not keep him and no one will accept him now. We do have a wonderful program called the Pack Team where someone sees that he gets his meds,and sees that he is alright, but that doesn't solve the problem. My son would not be included in this program if it wasn't for me getting to the right person. The state of New York's mental health system didn't know why Mr. Goldstein didn't have an intensive case manager, I know why, he didn't have anyone to advocate for him. This is not right! Those who are not personally invloved with a mentally ill problem will never know what it is like.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

David Miller, Leesburg, fla. — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 03:07:29 GMT

I watched this story with hope. The hope that your show would shed light on a mental health system that not only doesn't work, but was never designed to work. I was found mentally disabled by a medical board after returning from Viet Nam and instead of treatment, I was given an Honorable Discharge and dumped on the streets, without so much as a phone call to my family. No medical advice or follow-up was ever offered and my condition worsened as I got older, ruining not only my own life, but all those that I came in contact with. I feel for the parents of that poor girl, but after all is said and done, a mental patient is in prison, not a hospital, and the family that wanted vindication turned around and sued the hospitals that were negligent, and without admitting the guilt that is obvious, they settled out of court for cash...and the beat goes on, it doesn't change, it just goes on and on and on..Our prisons, homeless shelters, and streets are filled with unwanted mentally ill who never get the treatment they need, because there's no profit in it. Why not do a story on how the system is all smoke and mirrors, with no intention to ever help the mentally ill by our government???

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Proud mother of a schizophrenic who takes care of herself — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 03:16:22 GMT

There are two victims here. It's a shame that the money all those hospitals coughed up as defendents in the lawsuit brought by Kendra's family didn't have a few bucks to spend helping this man, who did not deny his illness and kept asking for help. Unless you are close to a mentally ill person, you have no idea just how bad the side effects of medication can be: Vomitting, nausea, blinding headaches, enormous weight gain, ticks, tardive dyskensia that is often irreversible. It is sad that emphasis is put on the minute number of crimes committed against others by the mentally ill. They form a miniscule percentage of the overwhelming number of crimes committed by 'normal' sane people. It is also sad that we see no programs honoring the mentally ill who do see their doctors, who do take their medication religiously, and struggle to maintain a useful life.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Lisa James — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 04:31:16 GMT

I am from Alberta Canada , my heart goes out to Kendra's family , my sister has this illness that is progressing just like this story .Everything about this story sounds just like what is happening in our lives. I am terrified someone will get fatally hurt. She won't take her medication and there is nothing I can do and the mental health system here does not allow forced treatment.I pray everday no one will end up dead.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

dorkzillatutu — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:14:23 GMT

OK, so i just had to comment somewhere. I just watched the show and one thing hit me. Her father. One of the last things he says to the camera on the show is that Andrew has never said he is sorry and has never expressed any remorse. Has he ever met a schizophrenic before?!?! The man is mentally ill He cannot feel remorse. I think it is such a tragedy that no one was keeping track of this guy and this death was allowed to happen. Please, place blame where it belongs and don't keep waiting for him to come out with some eloquent apology.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Gloria Sihlis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 05:17:34 GMT

I understand about this story as schizophrenia runs in my family also. I think forgiveness should be on all sides. Forgiveness for the mentally ill and forgiveness for the system. In 1991, my brother seriously injured my mother to the point of near death. She was in the hospital for five months recovering from a brain injury and was not able to return to her home and since 1992 has lived in a nursing home because of what happened to her. My brother was acquitted by Alberta law and put in a mental instutition for 3 to 4 years. He was slowly rehabilitated and released and did well for many years up to the past year. He now has been in and out of the hospital the past year as he had a relapse of his schizophrenia due to different stresses in his life. I believe schizophrenics with past history of violence, etc should be forced to have their medication. For their good and others. I feel sincere compassion for schizophrenics and what they have to go through. I also have sympathy for their victims also. It's a very hard disease for the person that has it and also their families. My heart goes out to Mr. Goldstein and Kendra. Both are victims of this most terrible disease.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Robert S. Naylor, Delmar, MD — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:10:25 GMT

Before I give my comment on this investigative piece that aired on your network tonight, let me start by saying that I have worked in the mental health system for the last 10 years, 5 of which were as an intensive mental health case manager. Most of my work has been in helping people with the terribly dibilitating disease of schizophrenia, people who the late Harry Stack Sullivan, a pioneer in the treatment of schizophrenia, once called "the loneliest of the lonely." I have to say that I am upset to the point of outrage by the slanted, shoddy piece of investigative journalism that was aired tonight on your network. This piece only served to further stigmatize an already disenfranchised population, and served blame for this tragic event on an overworked, underpaid, unappreciated, and underfunded mental healthcare system. From Reagan on down to George W. Bush, funding for the mentally ill has been slashed in favor of providing tax breaks for the wealthies 1% of Americans and to pay for the unprecendented build up in our military industrial complex. We are outraged that such a horrific event occurred, but as Americans, we need to look at ourselves in the mirror and ask ourselves why we have failed to provide the necessary funding to prevent such incidents from ever occurring in the first place. The grim answer, I'm afraid, is that it is far easier to stigmatize and demonize than it is to finance programs that could actually provide the necessary help to millions of our citizens, so that they might retain a degree of dignity that is their God given right. The real question isn't how Mr. Goldstein could have been "allowed" to push a beautiful, innocent young lady in front of a train; the question is, that out our continued shortsightedness and slefishness, why doesn't this sort of thing happen more often? Lastly, as Mr. Webdail commented at the end of the show about his shock at Goldstein's lack of remorse, as if this somehow demonstrated that he was culpable for his actions, I wondered if your reporter knew that one the the symptoms of the disease of schizophrenia is a disconnection of feeling, poverty of speech and poverty of what we without the disease would consider a "normal" emotional response? Next time do your homework, NBC. Of course, reporting the truth about this illness might not have been as sensational, would it?

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

D. Ayres, Bipolar in Oklahoma City, OK — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:11:04 GMT

It is very clear there are victims on both sides of this story. And then there are the victims on the periphery, those who are not directly involved but affected none the less. Mental illness in America effects everyone. The mentally ill are not only the homeless people you see on the streets, they are your neighbors, classmates, teachers, relatives and close friends. There is longer an issue about the 'rights' of the mentally ill in this country because they have no rights. No right to treatment and no rights to fair treatment within the law. It is a travesty that mental health patients are incarcerated for crimes that result directly from the lack of available, effective treatment for an illness they have no control over. It is wrong to systematically categorize these people as refusing to take medication and this is perpetuated by mental health providers in all positions. People need to know that treating mental illness with medication is an arduous and difficult process that frequently produces more health problems than they fix. There are too few community mental health programs and the for-pay medical services are too restricted to assure adequate treatment to anyone. It is nearly impossible to get into a mental health hospital in this country unless you are threatening your own life or the life of another. And that is too often too late to do any good. If you really care about this issue and have concerns about these crimes then do yourself and your loved ones a favor and tell your elected officials about the need for improvement and change in mental health treatment at the community level.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Anonymous — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:36:56 GMT

A terrible tragedy. I cannot even imagine the pain suffered by both sides in this instance. But it is a valuable lesson for public commuters: never stand too close to any rail edge. I see almost once a week teenagers (myself just in my early twenties) jokingly 'fake push' each other into oncoming trains, grabbing their friends at the last moment. I have had aggressive people approach me, as though to attack me from behind. As a result, I step as far away as possible, ready to go straight for their most vulnerable body points if any physical attack comes. Its a sad age that we live in, but when people are willing to take your life for "looking at them with disrespect" (a.k.a. for reading a sign next to them while wearing a freshly washed jacket), or sadly in Kendra's case, for nothing at all, you have no choice but to be ready to defend yourself by all lawful means. And in response to Sarah, I don't think any political party can be singled out: most of the Reagan decisions can be traced back to the Carter administration. Moreover, I don't see any organizations out on the streets marching for this cause -- from either side of the aisle. People want to continue to drone around in their own little world, pretend things are going great, and throw their arms up in the air and point fingers when things do downhill.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Charles, Chamnbersburg, PA — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 14:34:51 GMT

I am heartened by several comments that indicate the writers have a mature understanding of mental illness, but there are far too many comments indicate total ignorance of the issue. Several contributors appear to be in denial. This is the impression I got of Kendra's family as I watched her story. Throughout the presentation they ignored or brushed aside Andrew's history of mental illness; they denied its relevance. This was also the case with the prosecution who got the court to suppress evidence related to his illness, and the jury which cavalierly refused to spend any time examining his medical files. Everyone involved took the position that he was sane when he committed this terrible act; Andrew acted with knowledge and control. His actions were volitional, and, therefore, he is a criminal. Given all of this, I was absolutely blown away when, at the completion of the show, it was said that the Webdale's are suing the State of New York for failing to treat Andrew! How can that be? The implication of this is that Andrew was released from treatment while he was insane. It seems they want to have their cake and eat it too. They were complicit in having Andrew's defense of insanity quashed, and now they tacitly admit he was insane; what else can they be proposing by their suit. He was either sane when he committed the act or insane. He couldn't have been both; either Andrew bears personal responsibility or he doesn't. Seeking monetary damages now after insisting he was sane when he pushed their daughter off the platform is at best illogical and at worst larcenous. The only honest action if they pursue this would be to support an appeal for Andrew.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jim Thomas, Bangor, ME — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 15:42:35 GMT

I'm a neuropsychologist and was in school during the time that big changes were being made in the way that mental health care services were managed and financed in this country. Starting in 1963, there came a push to stop instutionalizing people with mental illness. The big plan was to have a continuum of care so that people with chronic mental health disorders could receive the services that would keep them and the community safe and have the least coercive places. The institutions were opened up and people were literally dumped onto the streets, but year by year the system of mental health centers and programs was scaled back because of cost issues. The mentally ill did not have organized clout in government. So there were a lot more people in the community with severe mental illnesses, not getting treatment. ALSO, in the early 1980's medical economics became a big force within insurance companies and governent. They invented the concept of "DRG's" (Diagnostic Related Groups). So in Michigan in the 1980's a person with schizophrenia could receive 17 days of inpatient treatment and then the insurer would not have to pay anything more. Overall this situation is like the Ford Pinto in the 1970's. Everyone knows that the car is dangerous, but the economists figure that one death in every 10,000 people or 100,000 people is ok. That is the cost of doing business. The real story here is not the tragic death of this young woman, but the larger mental lealth care problem.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Melissa Powe, Monroe, Louisiana — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:16:59 GMT

I am writing this because I work in the prison system and I see this happening every day. We have people out there who need help but there is very few places where they can turn. If a mentaly ill person committes a crime we consider them the criminaly insane. They end up in the prison system who has no training in how to deal with them. We lock them up in a padded cell 24 hrs a day, only to come out for showers. I live in Louisiana and the waiting list for a hospital that deals with the the criminal insane is years. Sometimes these people are stuck in these cells for years. When their due for release we have no choice but to release them. Even though we know that they are a danger to themselves and others. I believe the goverment needs to set money aside for more hospitals that deal with these people, not just for building more prisons and jails. This is a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Mary Zimmer, New Baltimore, Michigan — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:07:40 GMT

I am an RN that has worked in the mental health field for years, it boggles my mind that a person that is mentally ill has the 'right' to refuse medication without a court order. I realize that the Mental Health Code(s) have/had their place, but as a society we HAVE come far enough in our understanding of diseases of the brain to abolish many of the redundant laws! A society is judged by the way it cares for their young, old and infirm...what did our current laws and services do for Kendra or Andrew? We need to discern which plan of care is best for the violent Mentally ill person, prison (eventually) or a controlled environment? Someone should figure out the cost of housing the mentally ill in prison versus a controlled environment...maybe money will make the government take a look at this awful predicament.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Barbara Long, N. Stonington, CT — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:10:31 GMT

Schizophrenia is a terrible illness. Patients often fail to comply with their meds. They go off them because of side effects or simply feel that they are better and no longer need them. This can have deadly results. I had a patient who was sent to the ER because of suicidial and homocidial ideations. The ER doc did not communicate well in English. Despite the report given when the patient was turned over to the ED staff, the man was sent home. He proceeded to attack his mother and father with a machette. The sister found them the next morning. The mother died the father survived.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Larissa McGeer, San Francisco, CA — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:15:24 GMT

Mike, it's nice to hear from someone with no understanding of what compassion actually means. Schizophrenia is a biological illness, for one, for another, the man requested treatment and was thwarted in his attempts to obtain it. I weep watching this show, with the knowledge that both Kendra and Andrew are martyrs. This poor girl was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but she should not have to have worried about something like this happening. We live in a country, special thanks to people like you, Mike & JD, which only cares about the health and dignity of persons with enough "disposable" income to care for their health alone. I only hope that you are in a tax bracket that will allow the government to pick your pockets to pay for what is right and just. The only way to cut down on such tragic events is to do away with mismanaged care and deprivatise the healthcare system.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Pat, Tennessee — Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:11:52 GMT

Kendra's parents seem like wonderful people. They probably know their Daughter is in Heaven. Mr. Goldstein is still livng his nightmare every day. The voices that the mentally ill hear tell them what to do. There is no way we can know what or how they deal with it. How do I know? My Son is thirty four. He left home and lived on the streets for over five years. I could not convince him to come home. "They would not let him come". Until you know someone who has this problem, you cannot judge. I had no idea my beautiful Son would eat out of dumpsters, sleep in horse corrals, have his head slammed up against a brick wall by poicemen who arrested him for falling asleep in public areas. He will probably never have a girlfriend, drive a four wheel drive, play golf, or any of the things he used to do. I have fought for almost a year to get him medication and evaluated. The mentally ill have all the rights. Families have no rights. I was told by the court..he is 34 years old, he can live under a bridge if he wants to. I was told I could live under a bridge if I wanted to. What mentality do the people have that our mentally ill come in contact with every day. It took a Constable in Canada to help get my Son back home. They do not put their mentally ill back on the streets to be harmed or harm other people if they are arrested. The policemen in our country either are not trained on recognizing mental illness or just do not care. If I had not had someone to help time my Son's release back into the states and assist him in getting home, he would still be out there. He was removed from public transportation, allowed to be jeered at by other passengers, and left in remote areas without his belongings. Why did it take Canada to see that he had a problem?

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jean Arnold, New York City, NY — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:09:09 GMT

I did not see the Dateline broadcast, but I've read the state's investigation of Andrew Goldstein's psychiatric history. (It is available online.) I hope Dateline reported that Goldstein was discharged from a psychiatric hospital prematurely with a one-week supply of medication. I hope the viewers learned that as his schizophrenia worsened, he committed himself for hospital treatment 13 times, and that both he and his mother pleaded repeatedly that he be discharged to a supervised residence where he had done well for four years. Unfortunately, instead of becoming a national wakeup call to the critical shortage of psychiatric housing and treatment, the senseless and tragic Webdale murder was blamed on "treatment refusal" to clinch the passage of New York's compulsory medication law. to accomplish the passage of New York's forced medication law. I might caution NBC viewers that Dateline's "more info" box for Kendra's Law was written by the leading controversial proponent of compulsory medication for psychiatric outpatiens.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Jesse Herring 114 Woodgate Circle Winston-Salem, NC — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:36:42 GMT

I watched the story an I had one thought, why does this continue to happen. I have a friend who is mentally ill an was given medication on a monthly basis by a shot. Since being his medication by shot he hasn't had any more problems, he remains stable. Medication is a cronic problem with the mentally ill. If the shot which last for one month an has been around for fifteen years why isn't it used more often? My friend who takes the shot has no insurance an goes to a free clinic an if he has access to the shot why don't others? That's what should be investigated.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

PB, York, PA — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:49:16 GMT

I am sick and tired of letting mentally ill people get sympathy for something they can obviously control. If Mr. Goldstein was that mentally ill, how is he able to control who he becomes violent with or ride the subways of NY? People like him use mental illness as an excuse for their criminal behavior and the psychobable that psychologists use to excuse criminal behavior is no better. You do not need a psychologist to explain the difference between common sense behavior and abnormal. Psychologists are nothing but quacks who failed getting into med school.

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

PNC, Atlantic City, NJ — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:58:36 GMT

I agree, mental illness is an excuse and persons who exhibit this behavior should be locked away or put to death in case of violent behavior. People in this country needs to quit being scared about what to do when someone is a danger and the government is afraid of violating "rights". You have no rights when you are mentally ill. Period!!!!

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

Sara from Pa — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 06:43:41 GMT

I can not believe what I have read of some of the comments concerning Mental Illness. It is evident to me that those who have made these comments have no idea or no empathy for others. Mental Illness is not a choice. You do not ask to have a Heart Attack, Cancer or Diabetes...nor do you ask to have a Mental Illness. It is also apparent that some of the writers have never had contact with someone with Mental Illness. When someone is having irrational thoughts, they cannot stop the thoughts. They believe what they are thinking to be true.The thoughts control there actions.The energy that it takes to try and stop these thoughts, is unbelievable. And there are times when they can not be stopped...it isnnot a matter of choice...if it were...ifonly it was that easy. There is nothing easy about Mental Illness...it is not a choice... We need to do more to help those who are afflicted with Mental Illness. We need to quit blaming them for an illness they did not ask for. This is a very complex subject. I only wish there were easy answers...that there would be no more Kendra's or Andrew's...

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

HH Middletown, Oh — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:33:54 GMT

To a lot of people, the "mentally ill", are some thing to hide away, lock in the closet. That is the wrong attitude. Yes, what happened is a shame, and there should be laws, for victims, and those who commit the crimes. I am not takeing sides as to his mental stabillity, i am not qualified. Now, I am "mentally unstable". I have many doctor's findings and reports to show that. It is something I have no control over. My anger, temper, and violent "mode" can be triggered easily. For that i want to thank our government. I am a disabled veteran, taught how to "survive" by killing my enemy. I am highly medicated, and have many doctor's that check up on me. I also have a good support group, wife, friends, and my children. So, do not judge, until you have been in the other persons shoes. Without my medication, i could become a very sadistic, unforgiving, cruel person. I have been there.................

In NYC, a tragic crossing of paths

X, Fremont California — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:21:20 GMT

It is very tragic what happen to Kendra. I understand that he (Goldstein) was mentally ill but he was also a repeat offender! He had a violent past! It is such a shame for both parts of this conflict. Listen I have two children and if any of them where mentally ill AND violent then I would do all that I could to remove them from society and get them PROFESSIONAL help. These are my children and I love them dearly but you have to think of the better good of society and keep them from hurting others. Maybe if somebody did that for Mr. Goldstein then Kendra would be with us today.