Oct. 21: 'Deadly Retreat'

In October 2009, James Arthur Ray, a renowned self-help author and speaker, held a "Spiritual Warrior" retreat in Sedona, AZ. Three people died during the retreat, and Ray was charged with manslaughter but convicted of a lesser charge. Chris Hansen reports Deadly Retreat this Friday, October 21st, at 9pm/8c.

Dateline NBC's Chris Hansen reports from an Arizona desert where the infamous 'sweat lodge deaths' took place in 2009.  The full Dateline report 'Deadly Retreat' airs Friday, October 21, at 9pm/8c.

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I am outraged by your portrayal of a sweat-lodge. What this man was doing was not a sweat, but some perversion thereof. No one in an authentic sweat-lodge is ever asked to endure more than they can handle. It is intended to be a physical and a spiritual cleansing, not an endurance competition. There is no physically possible way that a traditional sweat-lodge of this proportion could be constructed (23' x 4'). Traditional sweats are built out of water willow which grow to the height of approximately 20-23 feet tall. After construction, the maximum circumference of a sweat could be no larger than 12 feet wide. Please consult with a traditional holy man to reveal the truth about sweat-lodge (inipi wakan), not some white man who is selling the service of purification. Sweat-lodge, spirituality, is never for sale.

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:52 PM EDT

I am surprised that James Rae would even consider to lead a sweat lodge. This is a sacred ceremony that only a Native can put on. Not just anyone can put one on. He should have asked a Native to perform this sweat lodge. I have only seen sweat lodges with natural materials used. Natural fiber blankets and no plastic tarps.

    #1.1 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:55 AM EDT
    Reply

    The question was asked "What do you think went wrong inside the sweat lodge?". Nothing went wrong. As a matter of fact, everything went as should have been expected. The human body is not meant to withstand environmental extremes like the one in the sweat lodge. It is only a matter of time before the body will go into shock and cardiovascular collapse. I can't understand why those individuals with medical backgrounds were willing to partake in such an absurd event.

      Reply#2 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:54 PM EDT

      Please research Black Elk's, Account of the Seven Sacred Rites of the Oglala Souix by Joseph Epes Brown

        Reply#3 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:58 PM EDT

        This is not the extremes that happen in a real sweat lodge

          Reply#4 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:59 PM EDT

          This is definitely NOT the typical sweatlodge!

            Reply#5 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:27 PM EDT

            What went wrong in the sweat lodge? White man playing Native American and not knowing what they are doing!!! The lodge was too big the fire pit too big small amounts of water are used not buckets. You do not use plastic tarps they cant breathe. Main and most important he needed to go ask permission from the Native Americans to do this. You do not mess with someone elses culture when you do not know what you are doing and it does not belong to you to begin with. Read the comments on facebook from the full blood Native Americans........

              Reply#6 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:33 PM EDT
              Reply

              I was saddened by the incident that happened with James Ray and his sweat lodge. I believe the whole situation is a symptom of a larger problem. People are consistently seeking for happiness outside of themselves. Unfortunately, many people feel they need an intermediary to achieve a happy life and this is not true.

              James Ray has not demonstrated himself to be a spiritual leader. James has no real understanding of what that means. He has no deep knowledge of sacred rituals and has created his own brand of religion by combining extreme stunts, piecing together philosophies and charging thousands of dollars to people who are honestly seeking to be happy. This is destructive and arrogant. His actions show he did not have true compassion for those people. His carelessness and lack of preparation was evident. He had no medical team on his staff. He did not feed them; he did not take precautions for an emergency situation. How can a person lead potentially dangerous exercises and take no precautions. You know how? Because his ego was more important. “I am GOD!” really? His power, to make these people complete these exercises took precedent. After the incident he was so self-centered, he did not stay with him, even call them. Instead he left the scene.

              I have been a Nichiren Buddhist for over 23 years and know enlightenment and growth does not come about by those exercises ordered by James Ray.

              There is no “secret” but there is a truth. You cannot get balance and harmony from extremity; you do not have to prove you are fearless and powerful by relinquishing your personal power to someone else. Everything you need to be happy comes from inside of you. I urge people to use common sense and realize only YOU hold the power to manifest your own happy life no one else does.

              .

                Reply#7 - Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:29 PM EDT

                I completely agree with what everyone has said here. Most of all was James Ray's extreme lack of compassion and empathy for what people went through. Then to call the mother of one of the victims and complain about how it "has ruined his life"! How rude and audacious! How sad as well. I am also a Buddhist and I think that the spiritual challenges that we give ourselves are difficult enough. Mira is right - happiness comes from inside yourself.

                  Reply#8 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:09 AM EDT

                  56 adults and 1 is blame so got out and some said it was bad they could do nothing the all to blame

                    Reply#9 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:10 AM EDT

                    56 adult and the choose one(1) to charge. I listen to people say he did not do a things but if so bad why did they not do any thing the are all to blame

                      Reply#10 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:16 AM EDT

                      And what pray tell is a souix, oh mighty oracle?

                        Reply#11 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:23 AM EDT

                        He (Ray) wouldn't try to kill off clients $$, more likely he was trying to one up the other sweat lodges to gain more suckers and it back-fired, literally...

                          Reply#12 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:01 AM EDT

                          I agree with many of the comments above and was also outraged as I watched, not only that this happened and people lost their lives, but also that the events of that day kept being referred to as a sweatlodge. I'm disappointed (but not terribly surprised) that Dateline and Chris Hansen did not responsibly report the fact that James Ray was a charletan plain and simple who misappropriated, misrepresented and misused a very sacred and powerful ceremony for his own self-serving purposes. This was evident in almost every detail of how this endurance test (I will not call it a ceremony or lodge because it was neither) was put together.

                          I find it so sad that once again a small man with a god complex managed to twist the teachings and traditions of another culture into something so disrespectful and abusive. Because of that 3 people died and countless others' lives will be altered forever. I find it equally sad that millions watching this show will walk away with a seriously distorted perception of what a sweatlodge is meant to be.

                            Reply#13 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:46 AM EDT

                            What a biased show. I don't believe there was a single pro-prosecution clip played in the last hour. The whole toxin/organophosphate issue as a red herring. Beth Karas should know better.

                              Reply#14 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:08 PM EDT

                              Why was Ray able to withstand the heat?? a recreation of the sweat lodge with temperature readings in different locations would have helped a little..also people exposed to brain washing and then hyperthermia would not be thinking right, thus the poor decisions to leave the lodge. Ray had no right to be running a sweat lodge without proper medical care immediately available. They have doctors, ambulances etc available at football games etc..in case the worst happens..this guy is very creepy and reminds me of Rev Jim Jones..

                                Reply#15 - Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:49 PM EDT

                                Why would anyone with brain cells working go away thinking this represented a real Native American sweatlodge? That is the least of the terrible outcomes. Ray is a "Jim Jones look and act alike". Just as folks seek religion to help them get through the life issues, so do some folks look for salvation via methods that many of us find to be over the top.

                                • 1 vote
                                Reply#16 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:21 AM EDT

                                From Wikipedia: "

                                In usage, a subtle difference is drawn between the charlatan and other kinds of confidence people. The charlatan is usually asalesperson. He does not try to create a personal relationship with his marks, or set up an elaborate hoax using roleplaying. Rather, the person called a charlatan is being accused of resorting to quackery, pseudoscience, or some knowingly employed bogus means of impressing people in order to swindle his victims by selling them worthless nostrums and similar goods or services that will not deliver on the promises made for them. The word calls forth the image of an old-time medicine show operator, who has long since left town by the time the people who bought his "snake oil" or similarly named tonic realize that it does not perform as advertised.

                                Hieronymous Bosch paints a scene of a Renaissance mountebank fleecing incredulous gamblers.

                                In reported spiritual communications, a charlatan is a person who fakes evidence that a spirit is "making contact" with the medium and seekers. This has been challenged successfully by skeptics who wrote passwords and gave them to people of trust, containing a password that should be spoken by the person if he ever tried to make contact, to validate the truth of the claim. No such claim has been verified. Notable people who have successfully debunked the claims of purported supernatural mediums include Brazilian writer Monteiro Lobato and magician Houdini.

                                Synonyms for "charlatan" include "mountebank", "shyster", and "quack". "Mountebank" comes from the Italian montambanco ormontimbanco based on the phrase monta in banco - literally referring to the action of a seller of dubious medicines getting up on a bench to address his audience of potential customers.[2]

                                "Quack" is a reference to "quackery" or the practice of dubious medicine."

                                '

                                  Reply#17 - Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:14 PM EDT
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